|
 |
|
Vick:J.N. Stroyar has just published the sequel to her first novel; THE CHILDREN's WAR. The sequel is: A CHANGE OF REGIME. These books are fiction but they are based on real history. Can you imagine what the world would be like now if Germany had not been defeated in World War Two? J.N. Stroyar has imagined such a place. She joins us to talk about her latest creation; A CHANGE OF REGIME, and her first book; THE CHILDREN's WAR. Tell us how you got the idea for these alternate histories? When does the historical divergence occur? And,why Germany?
JN:That's quite a question! I'll answer the short one first: The divergence occurs in 1941 when, because of a dream, Hitler decides not to invade the Soviet Union. He is also convinced to pursue nuclear weapons more vigorously. Without an eastern front and with the war in the west having gone nuclear, America concedes that Europe is lost to democracy and an uneasy truce is established. Given the US's concession to Stalin after WWII – in that independent countries and loyal allies against the Nazis were handed to him on a platter – this is not at all unlikely.
The idea for these books began in 1980 when I traveled to Poland to meet relatives. It was the first meeting of our two branches of the family since they separated 75 years before. Names, faces, and stories came alive. I was particularly moved by my great-Aunt showing me the grave of her daughter – who died from four years of slave-labor. The sorrow that one could hear in her voice, even after so many years, was heart-breaking. I rather naively thought “Someone should tell Americans about this.” At the time, our view of World War II suffering focused almost exclusively on the extermination camps and therefore many people were inclined to dismiss the evils of Nazism as something that would not have affected them because they were not Jewish. I felt that the experiences of these others might make the dangers of such totalitarian philosophies more real. I also felt that their sacrifices deserved some recognition – especially those of resistance fighters who gave everything to fight Nazism only to be sold out to Communism – and usually death – afterwards.
Then reality set in. These were old stories, from foreigners who spoke an incomprehensible language and, as citizens of a Communist country, were our enemies! Who could possibly care about their history? I put the idea on hold and continued my career in physics which took me to foreign lands and introduced me to many diverse people. In particular I traveled through the East Bloc (theoretical physics was one of the standard escapes from totalitarian tedium) and met asylum seekers who lived in Belgium, England, and Germany. Time and again, I came across the same sorts of stories. But this time they were modern! I was appalled but also cynical, so I began to research a bit – and the more I learned, the worse I felt.
Yet now the situation was even worse – I wanted to tell the stories of non-European foreigners! People whose lands had never known democracy. It would be all too easy to write them off as so totally alien as to be irrelevant to the American experience. Anyway, I was up against a greater wall – I had no concept of their lives. I had no experience of their culture, background or language. All I knew was the people I met face-to-face and their humanity.
I returned to the US at this time, convinced that I was not the person to tell their stories, but I couldn’t escape what I had heard, read, and learned. So eventually, as a sort of therapy, I began writing it all down, unifying the various pieces into one story – set in modern times because that was the setting for most of what I had heard, but also set in a culture and milieu which was understandable to me – that is, the Third Reich. It was the perfect vehicle for translating the oppressive regimes of other lands into a European context.
Which explains the reason I chose Germany. I wanted a protagonist who would not seem terribly foreign, someone who spoke our language – thus, I chose an Englishman, and then the natural oppressive government of such a person, would be the Third Reich. I initially thought of using an American, but then that would have left me with no way to comment on what I saw as America’s tolerance and occasional support of these terrible regimes. I also had lived in Germany and could speak German, so I could weave in cultural details that would make it seem real, and, using defense-related experiences from both sides of the Atlantic, I could add political and military-inspired details.
There was one problem with my choice: that Nazism had fixated on “Aryans” and some Americans, deep down, feel that they would have been classified as Aryan, and thus would have been safe. Since racial differences was not my point (most of the people I talked to suffered at the hands of people of the same race, color, religion, etc…), I had to make my protagonist as Aryan-looking as his oppressors. This device was, at least, historically accurate.
I should probably add as a clarification that all of these thoughts occurred to me for a story that I was writing solely for myself. Oddly, though most of what I wrote was just reporting other people’s experiences, I could not bring myself to put such horror on paper except with the promise to myself that I would never try to publish it. I mean, people would think I was some sort of maniac who advocated the depravity I wrote about! And what would it do to my reputation and publications as a physicist? And most importantly, would anyone be recognized as having spoken out against his (or her) government? Could it put them in danger? It was my husband who convinced me that I could overcome these reservations if I used a pen name. So I chose an old family name and submitted the manuscript for publication.
Vick:I had the pleasure of interviewing you for the first book; THE CHILDREN's WAR. In the new book the reader is reunited with your protagonist, Peter Halifax. Having read the books in order, I have to think that this would be preferable. Do you think that the books should be read concurrently?
JN:My preference is always to read things in order, but I suffer from a somewhat linear, scientific style of thinking. I know a lot of people who prefer doing it the other way around – they like the sense of delving into history one gets by going back to a first book after reading the sequel – I guess sort of like the Star Wars trilogies. There is a detailed enough introduction to A CHANGE OF REGIME, that one could read it independently of THE CHILDREN’S WAR. Naturally, one might then be inclined to wonder at some of the background and why the characters act the way they do and so then return to the original book after reading the sequel. In some ways, given how dense the plot twists are, maybe knowing what’s going to happen would enhance the reading experience.
Vick:Tell us about Peter, how did you imagine this character?
JN:Even if you start with THE CHILDREN’S WAR, you meet Peter after he has been shaped by his experiences. It takes a long time for his true character to emerge, and even by the end of the books the reader may be rather unsure of him – mostly because he’s unsure of himself. That’s the way I intended him: the thinking person surrounded by madness. In such circumstances only fanatics have no doubts.
Vick:Peter Halifax is treated like a sub human in this frightening society that you have imagined for these books. At first, I thought that you had created these various classifications of humanity. Then it hit me; these were real designations from the Third Reich! Please describe this "caste system" and where Peter Halifax fits in.
JN:You’re right – though the majority of personal experiences were taken from modern witnesses, the majority of “structure” to the society was taken straight out of historical documents. Frankly this stuff was just too weird to make up – nobody would believe it if it hadn’t actually happened. In the afterword of THE CHILDREN’S WAR, I made a point of trying to lay out some of the source material, but frankly it’s way too long to go into. I give a little more detail on the “historical background” page of my website www.jnstroyar.com
That said, I think one of the most important things about the racial laws were their inconsistency and intractability: who exactly were Aryans? Not just Germans (that was obvious), but who else? And how exactly were German Aryans better than other Aryans? And what about marriages between sub-humans and Aryans? How far back did one have to go to be pure? Et cetera ad nauseum. Remember: we’re not talking about a well-laid out Constitution with a separate section entitled “Racial Categorizations” – these things were derived from speeches and writings and pronouncements made over more than a dozen years. The Nazi Party ran things by fiat and whoever was currently in-power (in a region, or in a department) made the rules. But it was often not clear who was in charge! So, it seemed to have been pretty much at the discretion of local officials to interpret the law and decide when to enforce or ignore something. This, of course, gave them incredible power and was very effective in keeping the population terrified of retribution. This technique of so over-legislating a people that almost everything is illegal has been used by many regimes and I’ve experienced its effect in, for instance, Communist societies, but anyone in the USA who has had to deal with the IRS can sympathize.
In Peter’s case, I placed him in the position that millions of slave-laborers were put in when they were taken from their homes and forced to work (domestically, on farms, and in industry). They literally had no rights in law. None at all. Everything about their existence was dependent on whoever was appointed as their overseer. Beyond that there were a million petty regulations that they were supposed to follow and I list some in the novels. I also added a few from South Africa under apartheid to add a modern touch.
Vick:You have also created a resistance movement that is hidden away in the mountains of eastern Europe. This organization is also based on
an historical group. Please tell us about them.
JN:You’re talking about the Polish Home Army (Armia Krajowa). That these people, in a country so ruthlessly occupied by the Nazis, managed to fight back for six long years is amazing. The retribution taken out against them for their resistance was unbelievably cruel – yet they fought on. Unfortunately most of their history has been lost because those who were not killed by the Nazis were “silenced” by the equally hostile Soviet occupation that followed. One book, published in 1944, called STORY OF A SECRET STATE by Jan Karski gives an excellent true account of some of their exploits.
Vick:A number of characters are featured in both books. In the sequel, A CHANGE OF REGIME, you really fleshed out the character of Ryszard. I think that he is an amazing creation! He is another thinking person surrounded by madness and the reader is never sure what to make of him. Tell us about him.
JN:He was originally intended to be a minor character, but in typical Ryszard manner, he simply took control and developed along lines I never expected. Basically he’s Peter’s alter-ego, the thinking man who recognizes that only fanatics have power, so he becomes a fanatic, suppressing every human inclination in the name of “The Cause.” This makes him usurious, arrogant, and insufferable, but I think as the reader gets to know him and understands the nature of the sacrifice he has made, he also becomes sympathetic.
Vick:You also give full form to the Fuehrer, Rudi. Despite the pathology of this maniac, I'm guessing that you had some fun creating this particular madman. Along with Schindler, an odd choice for a name -
JN:Not at all! Schindler is a common German name, chosen simply for that reason and before Spielberg’s film.
Vick: these men make wonderful villains. How did you get inside the heads of these individuals, so that you could write them so tellingly?
JN:I did have fun working with Rudi and it was not at all difficult getting into the heads of any of these guys. I don’t know why, I just imagined their personality traits, then asked myself, “Well, what would you do if you were so-and-so?” And their actions emerged naturally. Hmm. I should probably be worried by that fact….
Vick:Peter Halifax spends time in prison in both books. In the first book, THE CHILDREN's WAR, he endures torture that might remind readers of a certain Iraqi prison.
JN:Yes – at the time I was trying to draw attention to nasty regimes which were not in the world’s eye and to remind people to value the liberties and human rights of our democracies, but I also had the Third Reich playing a simultaneous role of representing a possible extreme outcome of some American (and EU) tendencies. It was meant to show how using security or patriotism or PC or some other noble cause can be used to justify the destruction of those same liberties and human rights. THE CHILDREN’S WAR was published before 9/11 and A CHANGE OF REGIME before Abu Ghraib – but the attack on our liberties and the debasement of our principles which followed the one and is reflected in the other was all too predictable.
Vick:I'm sensing that you are looking at issues of humanity: what makes us human beings? And, what drives us to dehumanize others? Can you comment?
JN:I certainly can – and did: the result was two big books! Honestly, I’m baffled by it all and that was, essentially, the motivation for my writing – I wanted to come to an understanding of what these people feel.
Vick:How so?
JN:First, how it feels to be dehumanized, how does this weaken a person? How does one react? THE CHILDREN’S WAR dealt mostly with that using the experiences of people I had talked to and read about.
Vick:And the other side of the equation?
JN:Although my years of research had included talking to and reading the justifications of some people with pretty nasty pasts, in THE CHILDREN’S WAR I didn’t get much chance to delve into their characters. In A CHANGE OF REGIME, I was able to do that. I looked at several personality types: those who have an ideology that (conveniently) dehumanizes others and use this in their pursuit of power (Schindler, et al.), those who simply enjoy inflicting pain (the Führer), and those who feel driven to extreme measures (Peter, the resistance, etc.). The first type, I think, exists in every society, in every era – indeed it’s clearly part of our survival strategy since the dawn of time. Many times they move into politics and keep their nastier tendencies under control, because that is what is necessary to remain in power. However, when they are given free rein (possibly by a people who are scared by some enemy or who are already weakened by some other event), they can ever more narrowly define the “us” of their protected group and unleash powerful force against anyone who falls into the category of “them.” In so doing, they create more of their ilk out of the (let’s call them) borderline cases and also enable the second type – those who enjoy violence. They also create the third category – those who feel driven to extremes. The system thus becomes self-perpetuating, making the cycle of violence almost impossible to break.
Vick:So how do you think the cycle is broken?
JN:I think only courageous, selfless actions can hope to change this: whether it is taking an unnecessary risk on behalf of others or refusing to take revenge or even just a random act of kindness. And such actions must be taken repeatedly, often uselessly, by many people. But that is the essence of being human: feeling for others. To perceive outside one’s own limited experiences. To humanize others, even the enemy and to hold fast to one’s principles even in the face of extreme provocation.
That’s actually way too simplistic. Being human is also wanting power and the security it brings, and having drives and wanting to satisfy them. And that’s why I felt the need to delve into my villains’ minds to try to find out how they were human too, and also why a lot of the “good guys” just aren’t all that good.
Vick:The North American Union seems to take an ambivalent view of the Third Reich terror, did you intend for this sense of isolationism to be a commentary on the blind eye that the United States seems to have for certain repressive regimes? After all, Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden started off as US allies. History is littered with the stories of former US allies that go bad, the Shah, Manuel Noriega, etc. Am I reading too much into this?
JN:Not at all. I certainly did intend to comment on that. And it’s more than a blind eye – it’s often unequivocal support. And not just the US. I think other western nations should shoulder their blame for a lot of the messy regimes we have around the world. The problem is, whenever we play Machiavellian politics, we screw up because blind interest in the State is against our State’s original principles. And so, as you point out, we end up supporting the wrong people. Which, naturally, leads into yet another complexity dealt with in the books: i.e. the problems and pitfalls of intervention.
Vick:I love your villains! One of my favorites from the first book is Karl Vogel. His shadow falls rather heavily in the second book as well.
JN:Yes, I always wished I had space to explore his character more fully. He’s just a totally self-involved, self-pitying guy who sucks up to those above him in the hierarchy and is pompous to those he feels are below him. Luckily, for most of us in our society these people are kept in check by social conventions and their lack of power. Karl is what happens when those restraints are removed. And for those who think that he is an extreme – they should remember that it was not that long ago that it was considered acceptable within our own society to beat people of a lower status who had stepped out of line, and it is still considered acceptable (though less often legal) in a large part of the rest of the world.
Vick:You mention that most of the books are based upon the experiences of real people – are there any of your own experiences included?
JN:Quite a lot actually, but just background details. The science, some of the politics, intelligence work, some of the normal life sequences… Luckily none of the really nasty stuff. And some of the weird occurrences: as I didn’t want to stray too far from the possible, I usually only felt justified including an odd coincidence or strange event if it had actually happened to me or someone I knew.
Vick:In two books of such length, how were you able to conceptualize the plot twists while maintaining continuity? Did you map out how the whole thing would end from the beginning?
JN:No – I didn’t even know who was going to live and who was going to die. I knew the ideas I wanted to explore and set up an initial situation accordingly, then I’d see how the characters reacted. Early on I’d play out a chapter time and again in my mind until it all seemed right, but later, as the characters developed their own personalities, I could sit down and write a chapter almost without reflection, and eventually the characters took over the flow of events completely. My training as a theoretical physicist forced me to insist on consistency and so sometimes I had to go back and sort out some details or follow through on a development that I had not intended, but generally, once a character was in a situation and decided on an action, then I had to go with it and sort out any attendant difficulties in following chapters. It’s sort of like writing a history as one is living it and then occasionally going back to research why exactly something happened and including that in the record.
Vick:THE CHILDREN'S WAR won the Sidewise Award. For our readers who are not familiar with that prize; what is it?
JN:It’s given by the Uchronia Society www.uchronia.net which is an organization that publishes a list of alternate history novels and writings. They give an award each year to the best alternate history published in a given year. THE CHILDREN’S WAR won the award for the long form in 2001, and A CHANGE OF REGIME is being considered for the award for 2004.
Vick:And, that first novel was published in the US by Pocket Books. How did you get noticed?
JN:I sent out a flyer to publishers to see if anyone was interested, but most major publishers only work through agents. One of these publishers was kind enough to enclose a list of agents (which was a xeroxed section from “The Literary Marketplace” which can be found in libraries). I then sent the flyer out to agents and eventually received a positive response. The agent then submitted the manuscript to publishers and we ended up with Pocket Books, which is a division of Simon & Schuster and which is the publisher who originally sent me the list of agents. So, it all turned out to be a bit of an unnecessary detour.
Vick:You already mentioned that you wrote that first book for yourself then decided to publish it, what advice would you give to aspiring novelists in regards to getting attention for their work?
JN:Haven’t a clue. I didn’t do anything by the book and by all the predictions of all the pundits, I shouldn’t have succeeded. I guess there is one piece of advice that might help: don’t quit sending out your query. Go through the list of agents listed in the Literary Marketplace (or off some website), and if you reach the end of the list without a positive response, start at the beginning again. The staff at agencies changes constantly, their opinions and needs change constantly, and if you send and then send and then send again, you might eventually hit the right person on the right day. Beyond that, I think the publishing industry is being changed by the information age and is in danger or becoming an irrelevant monolith, so new authors, depending on their willingness to work for themselves, might want to consider the opportunities opening up outside of traditional publishing.
Vick:My guest has been J. N. Stroyar. Her new book is A CHANGE OF REGIME published by AUTHORHOUSE. You can obtain a copy of the book from your local bookstore or from the following sources:Barnes and Noble at bn.com (currently the lowest price on-line)
amazon.com
AuthorHouse.com
or through the Alternate History website: Uchronia.net
For more information about the books visit the author’s website at www.jnstroyar.com
Thanks very much JN, for your thoughtful answers! For the BOOK NOOK, I'm Vick Mickunas.
July 26, 2004/Copyright Vick Mickunas
Posted by Vick Mickunas on 7/26/04; 10:48:50 AM
from the dept.
|
